“Eagle” in lunar orbit after detaching from “Columbia”.
In honor of the 45th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon landing–and in support of Buzz Aldrin’s #Apollo45 initiative–we took a little time to talk with XCOR founders, pilots, board members and principals to hear their personal recollections of Sunday July 20th, 1969, and the days leading up to one small step.
Where were you when Apollo 11 landed on the moon?
Rick Searfoss (XCOR Chief Test Pilot and former NASA Shuttle Commander): I was a 13 year old at Boy Scout camp.
Aleta Jackson (Founder, Chief Technician and Office Manager): On the morning of 16 July 1969 I dragged a sleeping bag into the family room. I also set up a card table, opened and started building a Revell 1/24 model of the Apollo module: capsule, lunar lander etc. After the Saturn V took off, I ate, slept, worked and watched without stop from lift-off to recovery on board the Hornet.
Dan DeLong (Founder and Chief Engineer): I was a junior in high school, working in a radio station (WGSA/WIOV), and the program manager was collecting all the songs we could find that had a moon reference. Lots of Frank Sinatra’s “Fly Me To The Moon”
Yes, I was a Federal Communications Commission “engineer” licensed to operate any radio or TV station in the country at age 17.
Lee Valentine (Board Member): I was glued to a small portable black and white TV in Virginia Beach, about 300 yards from where Blackbeard met his deserved end. Just an unbelievable thing to see the first footsteps on another world.
XCOR board member Stephen Fleming in 1969.
Stephen Fleming (Board Member): 45 years ago on July 17th, I was 7 years old. We were watching the Apollo 11 launch on the “big” TV in my parents bedroom: 19″ black and white wooden console, that also included a radio and a record player.
XCOR President Andrew Nelson in 1969
Andrew Nelson (President): I was in front of the television at my home in Durham, North Carolina.
Randy Baker (Senior Vice President): I was at school in Melbourne, Australia. It was a dreary and dull winter day, and as a 13 year old, I was more interested in Jenny, Grace and Heather–the older girls.
What was it like? Who was with you and what were you doing?
Rick Searfoss: They brought the whole camp into the dining hall, we all crowded around a tiny black and white TV, and saw it live. [It was the] culmination of an amazing, almost unbelievable project. Yet I, like I think most young people, never really had any doubt we would pull it off.
Aleta Jackson: We were all there, grouped around the TV, when Neil decided not to take a nap and take a little walk instead. I finished the model a couple of hours before splashdown.
When Neil first exited the lander I think I and my parents held our collective breaths.
Dan DeLong: One of my buddies had a bigger TV set so a few of us went to his house to see the landing live. Back then it all seemed normal and natural that we were doing this, as I had grown up watching the live coverage of the Mercury and Gemini launches. I still remember the TV commercials for ‘liquid pentaborane’ as if it were gasoline.
Doug Jones: I was just nine years old, the youngest of four still at home (my eldest sisters, out of the nest, were in the US). Dad let the others sleep, but knowing what a space nut I was he woke me up at 2 AM to watch the moonwalk, with audio on the Armed Forces Radio and video on the local Belgian television station. I was sleepy but incredibly excited.
Stephen Fleming: Ten minutes before launch, there was a knock on the door: the US Census lady. My
parents insisted that she come in and watch with us. She felt very flustered being invited into their bedroom!
The landing on the 20th? Same spot. Mom and Dad in bed, my sister and I lying on the ugly green shag carpeting below them, watching Huntley and Brinkley. My dad disliked Walter Cronkite, so I missed my chance to see Robert Heinlein.
Andrew Nelson: It was a really hot day, humid, typical for that time of year. I was outside playing with my best friend, Ricky Baber. I was almost six years old, Ricky had already turned six. We had watched the launch a few days earlier, we knew all about the Saturn V, the LEM, the capsule and Buzz, Neil and Michael. We were running around playing outside when my mom called us in to watch the landing. I am fairly certain we had on Walter Cronkite. My mom was really nervous. We were excited. We really did not understand the risk of the mission at the time, it was just pure excitement.
Randy Baker: Sitting on the gymnasium floor trying to watch a small black and white tv, waiting, waiting, waiting for something to happen. It was long. We assembled around 9am and took our places on the hard
floor (no chairs to sit on). Several hundred students gathered together in a swirling, chattering, mass of teenagers wondering when this event was actually going to happen. The floor got harder as we waited. The only break to the boredom was watching the girls. At around 12.45pm a hush ascended on the gathered crowd.
Fidgeting lessened and hushed voices became even more hushed. A sense of anticipation of something great about to happen permeated the gymnasium. Thoughts of Jenny, Grace and Heather were soon relegated to the far reaches of my mind as I saw a grainy foot descend. The TV was hard to see, the voices crackly. I heard a tinny voice from the TV say “One small step…..”
The cheering of several hundred people in the gymnasium prevented any possibility of us hearing the rest of
what Armstrong said.
What did it mean to you at the time?
Rick Searfoss: I had followed it all with the focus and interest of totally enthralled kid. Read everything I could on the Space Program, built and flew model rockets….
Somewhere along the way it also had clicked that all those astronauts were originally military pilots like my dad.
Aleta Jackson: Mom and Dad had quiet tears of wonder, joy and awe. I could only pound my fist on the carpet, inarticulate with an exhilarated combination of emotions impossible to describe.
Doug Jones: I just *knew* I would do this some day, but never dreamed it would take
so long… I was already looking forward to the future, thinking “What will my older self remember of this day?” (I started that habit the year prior, on June 1, 1968, looking across the dinner table to the sunset light in the
front yard, “I will be older and wiser some day, looking back on this memory.”)
Yes, I was an odd child.
Andrew Nelson: It was just amazing. We played like we were on the moon for
weeks. It really stuck with us, we continued to watch the follow on missions, and keep track of all the details. I had books and articles and models and posters about space and the Apollo, Gemini and Mercury programs.
Randy Baker: We were all standing up cheering, clapping, jumping…even though I am sure we didn’t fully understand the ramifications of what we saw on the small screen that day. But to a person, we knew that what we had seen had changed the world we knew forever. Of that we were certain.
How has it impacted your life, or your work?
Rick Searfoss: It inspired me to think that maybe, just maybe I could follow in their footsteps. Coupling that with some superb high school teachers who not just taught me, but showed me how to love math and science, and a soccer coach and track coach who taught me what it is to really bust your gut working, and I determined that I would go for it and do everything I could to try to eventually become an astronaut.
Aleta Jackson: I cannot possibly quantify the feelings I had 30 years later when Buzz and I shared a quiet dinner together on the anniversary of that day. Inside me was that young girl, wide-eyed, breathless and almost dizzy with joy.
Doug Jones: I reluctantly went into Electrical Engineering in college, a mercenary
decision for good employment, but my heart was never fully in it. I founded Hummingbird Launch Systems, then in 1997 I finally jumped ship to Aerospace and never looked back.
Stephen Fleming: We lived in Atlanta so we talked about driving to one of the Apollo launches, but we figured they’d be happening forever, so there was no hurry.
Andrew Nelson: I always wanted to be an astronaut, pilot, and build things. It led me to my first real job at Ohio University in the avionics engineering program when I worked on early differential GPS concepts in 1982, why I went to work at Cape Canaveral right out of college, worked in aerospace in Boston and Europe, and why eventually that love for space led me back to XCOR.
Randy Baker: It would be so untrue for me to claim that the moon landing was instrumental in my having an interest in space. It was like, now I have seen the impossible done, it is time to move on. My interest in the following moon landings were overshadowed by my interest in beaches, surfing, and, of course girls. My teenage years were a blur of action, with little room for contemplation.
It was many years later when I walked out of the door of my house in Lancaster, California, and looked to the sky–and saw a couple of B2 bombers flying overhead–that my thoughts went back to aerospace, the moon landings, the quest for the next adventure.
Now at XCOR I am playing a small part in keeping that journey going. I feel I have come full circle, back to where it all started for me 45 years ago.
Where would you like to see space exploration take us in the next 45 years?
Rick Searfoss: The next 45 years I would love to see us truly accelerate commercial human space flight, making some of what seemed impossible in the ’60s routine. In concert I’d also like to see the world bite off some new, seemingly impossible technical challenges and not quit until they’re accomplished.
For me personally I’m less a proponent of one particular path in human space exploration–back to the moon, on to Mars, asteroid mission–than I am dead set that we need to get off our rear ends and marshall the leadership and effort to do something to move forward in a revolutionary way.
Aleta Jackson: The next 45 years? I’d like to see thriving communities on Luna, Mars and elsewhere. We need to get humanity off this rock and into the rest of the Universe.
Doug Jones: Exploration is already reaching to the edge of the solar system. Exploitation and economic activity, the big three of mining, manufacturing, and settlement should and eventually must spread as far.
By #Apollo90 the main belt and some bodies farther out should have large populations and huge profits to be made, along with broadening the human experience. We have yet to raise a generation where orbital dynamics is as intuitive as riding a skateboard.
Andrew Nelson: To a permanent station on Mars.
Randy Baker: If the dream of space exploration over the next 45 years can impact the way youngsters see themselves, as it did me 45 years ago, then I care not where we go, only that we go. I care not what the next generation of young people do with their lives, only that they do.
Space travel and exploration is far more than just going places or mining asteroids. It is proof that the impossible may become possible, that life is there for the taking and that each individual can make their own journey, if they want it enough.
So go to Mars and beyond, journey where man has never been before, bringing back stories of wondrous things. Excite the imaginations and beliefs of the next generation.
They will inherit what we leave them. It is our responsibility to leave them with a reason to believe in themselves, and space exploration is one way we can do exactly that.
With the #NED vs #ARG match minutes away, we stopped to chat with XCOR board member Michiel Mol about his lifelong love of football, the meaning of the color orange, and his inspiration in offering the Dutch squad a life-changing experience.
Bryan Campen: This is a pretty big deal. What inspired you to offer this to the team?
Michiel Mol: XCOR Space Expeditions’ team in Amsterdam contains many Dutch fans. We were inspired by the international press when they referred to Robin Van Persie’s beautiful header against Spain as ‘the Flying Dutchman’. So we decided to put something extra on the table to drive Orange to an even higher level: 63 miles!
BC: Silly question: Have you been a lifelong fan?
MM: Absolutely. I’m part of the Dutch national frustration of losing in the finals in 1974, 1978 and 2010. I can still remember them all and it’s time to set things straight.
BC: Does your son play?
MM: Most Dutch kids do. I advised my son, however, that it probably would be better to pursue a career in something else
BC: You must have been to your fair share of Dutch games. What’s been the most memorable part of that experience?
MM: The enormous sense of unity.
During a Dutch game there’s no difference in status, gender or color. Everybody is just Orange and shouting their lungs out. Even the King and Queen join in (as long as we’re not playing Argentina).
BC: Where are you watching the match today?
MM: I’m watching the games at home, together with my family and best friends.
BC: Favorite player? Favorite past game? Why?
Klaas Jan Huntelaar shoots #NED into the quarterfinals
MM: They’re all my favorites, but at this moment Klaas Jan Huntelaar earns some extra respect. Did you know he missed a number of penalties end of last season? So cool that it didn’t hold him back from claiming the ball against Mexico and that he shot us into the next round.
BC: The new XCOR Space Expeditions swoosh logo and the Dutch team share the same color, brilliant orange…
MM: Yes. ‘Of Orange’ is the surname of the Dutch royal family. In times of repression in the past, members of the resistance used to wear the color in order to recognize each other. So the Dutch wear it with a deep sense of pride, respect and heritage.
BC: If the Netherlands team wins the World Cup, what will that mean for XCOR?
MM: In any case it will mean a lot of work for our planning department, because I’m sure a lot of our clients will be putting in requests to fly on the same day as Arjen Robben, Robin van Persie or Louis van Gaal.
With the Dutch squad entering the semifinals tomorrow against Argentina, and Germany and Brazil just about to determine which will make it to the final match of the World Cup, we sit down with XCOR’s Andrew Nelson to discuss #NED v #CRC, soccer and family, the USA-Belgium match, #BEL v #GER, #NED v #ARG, and of course, that flight giveaway should the Netherlands take it all.
Bryan Campen: So were you jumping up and down when the Netherlands won the shootout Saturday? Be honest.
The Netherlands team celebrates after defeating Costa Rica.Agence France-Presse/Getty Images
Andrew Nelson: I was actually driving with my wife to an event she arranged for us, so I listened to the final 15 minutes and penalty kicks in the car. I definitely whooped it up and swerved a bit, but all was well, no accident!
BC: And what about USA v. Belgium? How was the Nelson house during that one?
AN: Pins and needles. I thought they were going to do it in the last 30 seconds. The whole family was gathered around the TV, and my daughter was yelling real loud. But we were so very proud of the way the US played and Jurgen Klinsmann coached them – they did so very well against some very good competition. Next time, I hope they make it much further.
BC: Your kids play soccer, right?
AN: My daughter is pretty accomplished. She plays on an elite team and travels all over the place. She’s started on her high school team since she was a freshman, and last year as a sophomore, they won the equivalent of the state championships in their division here in Texas. My son played when he was younger, but now plays hockey, football and baseball.
BC: When you have the time to attend, are you the parent on the sidelines, or do you have the good fortune to find time to coach at all?
AN: I used to coach my son’s soccer team when he was younger, which was very fun. The first team was at a level they called “kinder-kick” and it was boys and girls on the same team. Now I am on the sidelines doing the parent thing.
BC: So some might say this is a wild idea, XCOR offering an entire World Cup soccer squad the right to go to space on Lynx if they win it all. How did this possibly unfold, and can you lay it out for us?
AN: As we were getting ready to announce the acquisition of SXC, which was founded and based in Holland, Michiel Mol, one of the founders of SXC, brought us the idea of flying the Dutch team if they won it all. It was right after the amazing header goal in the Group stage game versus Spain by Robin van Persie.
He was truly a Flying Dutchman on that goal! Michiel felt that van Persie and his teammates should really do something unique and fly to space if they won the whole thing. Having come in 2nd three times in the World Cup, maybe this would be something to motivate them that last inch (‘centimeter’ is probably more appropriate) if they made it all the way to the finals.
Michiel presented us with the idea, and we loved it. It felt right since the Dutch side had a real chance of winning and because of SXC’s solid reputation and stature in Holland, the offer would be taken seriously by the team and the Netherlands-based media. It is potentially very impactful to the final outcome.
How could we refuse?
BC: You were deeply involved in the acquisition of Space Expedition Corporation, now XCOR Space Expeditions. What was the most interesting (or exciting) part?
AN: Finishing (laughs). But seriously, given our relatively small size, the cross-border nature of the acquisition combined with the fact that we are also registered with the US State Department’s Department of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC), and produce ITAR and MTCR-controlled hardware, made this very interesting and fairly unique.
Clearly the acquisition made a lot of sense to all parties, but we had to make sure we understood Dutch labor and other laws, the potential tax impacts on the SXC investors, the potential future tax implications for XCOR as a company, and the need for review by the US Treasury Department’s Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS).
Because of the all common stock nature of the transaction, and the close proximity of this transaction to the separate Series B investment—it all made for some interesting late nights.
BC: Germany or Brazil?
AN: Even though Brazil is down two good players, they are still the favorites by the odds makers and pundits — they have a strong team even without Neymar and Silva on the field, Hulk and Fred and Oscar are great players, they are on their home turf with the crowd behind them, they won the last World Cup match-up with Germany in 2002 in the finals, and they’ve won 12 of 21 previous meetings with the Germans with five draws while losing only four.
But saying all this, I don’t know, I think Germany is going to win with disciplined play and a strong midfield.
BC: Tim Krul or Jasper Cillessen?
AN: Jasper should–and will–start.
If it goes to penalties again I would look for a last minute substitution like last time. Who would not want a 6 feet 4 inch guy who has great lateral movement in the box? An extra 2-4 inches of reach means a lot when the ball is being shot from 12 yards in front of you.
BC: A Twitter follower asks if Lynx will be able to hold Tim Krul…
AN: Yes, he should fit in Lynx without a problem.
BC: Netherlands wins by how many points on Wednesday?
AN: Penalties 4-3, again. Although I wish they would put it to bed earlier like with Spain.
Tune in tomorrow when XCOR board member Michiel Mol walks us up to #NED v #ARG, discusses Dutch soccer matches, and tells us his inspiration for offering the Netherlands squad the ride of a lifetime.
Set behind the XCOR Lynx pilot’s seat (Payload A), the Cub Carrier will transport up to 15 small experiments on each flight and can be installed and removed quickly for frequent, low-cost flight opportunities.
Adds Wright, “The Cub Carrier is an ideal platform for small materials-processing, fluid-physics, life-science, and engineering experiments. University teaching and research, K-12 education, citizen science, government and industrial R&D will all benefit from the convenient, simple interfaces, rapid integration and affordability of Lynx Cub experiments. We are pleased to have the opportunity to introduce this exciting platform to the audience at MakerCon.”
MakerCon is a premiere event organized by Maker Media, publisher of Make magazine and producer of Maker Faire. MakerCon brings together the leaders
at the forefront of the maker movement. The conference provides new
insights into local and global manufacturing, design, marketing and
distribution, and diverse funding options to help makers bring their
products to market.
MakerCon is presented by Intel and hosted by Oracle Corporation. More
information, including a complete list of speakers, is available at
www.makercon.com. Registration is available at www.makercon.com/attend.
Additional information about Citizens in Space can be found at www.citizensinspace.org
More on the International Space Development Conference here.
We kick back into gear on subsystem updates in an interview with Brandon Litt. Among his other responsibilities, Brandon is in charge of the Lynx strakes.
The strakes are the large structural sections of the airframe just inboard of the wings. They are the primary structure that attaches the wings to the spacecraft, and each strake (one on the port side, the other on the starboard side) contains the following: four kerosene fuel tanks, the main landing gear, and two reaction control thrusters that will control the Lynx when outside of the Earth’s atmosphere.
Left to right: Engineers Mike Valant and Brandon Litt prepare to test fit a custom titanium beam into the Lynx strake.
BC: So what’s the status of the strakes right now?
BL: Well we have both port and starboard side strakes in house.
Currently we are working on some final carbon fiber layups. Things like fabricating closeouts for the access hatches, landing gear bay doors, etc.
BC: What does that mean?
BL: In several locations around the strakes we’ve got these large access penetrations where we can reach inside and do plumbing or electrical work on the vehicle.
These holes need to be closed-out so we have a smooth aerodynamic shape. The doors will be flush with the skin and can be removed for vehicle maintenance. You could also call them access panels.
BC: What comes after that? What does it take to get us to flight?
BL: After that we are progressing on to main gear installation, and then final vehicle integration.
First, each main gear assembly needs to be attached to the strakes. The gear will be hanging from custom designed titanium beams that are mounted inside of the strakes. The picture above shows me and my colleague Mike Valant doing a test fit of the titanium beam in the port side strake.
Brandon Litt reviews landing gear status with the XCOR Lynx team at a recent Lynx structures meeting.
Once the gear is installed, we will perform tests of the retract and deploy mechanism. We will cycle the landing gear multiple times to ensure it works properly. The landing gear kinematics are quite complicated, and it’s imperative that the entire system works as it was designed.
So we will get a lot of hours on that, make sure everything works correctly and go from there.
After that, we have to go about installing the strakes onto the rest of the vehicle structure– attaching them onto the fuselage and tying them in with further carbon fiber layups.
The Lynx structure is primarily built from carbon fiber cloth infused with an epoxy resin. This allows the structure to be very stiff, while still being light enough to fly to space. Each structural component on the Lynx (except for the wings) will need to be bonded to each other. Carbon fiber cloth is then physically laid-up over the joints between components to transfer the flight loads throughout the entire structure.
In some locations we will also be using mechanical fasteners (bolts) to reinforce these joints.
After the strakes are firmly attached, we are in the home stretch. We can begin doing things like plumbing the fuel tanks, wiring the electrical system, doing the final checkouts of the landing gear system and all of the other stuff that will ensure flight readiness.
BC: What was the hardest part of the strake build?
BL: The hardest part? Well, because you’re working with carbon fiber and epoxy, you have to build all four of these fuel tanks and the related attach points for the parts mentioned above, at the same time.
Then you close it all out and bake it in an oven. Hopefully the parts haven’t shifted and moved in the process. And hopefully, when you’re done, you have a part that works (we do!).
BC: Can you walk us through what the next steps are with the strakes as of today?
BL: The next steps are to attach the strakes to the fuselage center section, start plumbing the fuel and electrical lines and the reaction control thrusters and install the main landing gear.
I have to say that it’s a very exciting time for us. After two and a half years of work on the strake design, staring at the part on a computer and doing the math, I actually get to see everything come together in front of me. I couldn’t ask for more. All of our engineers are doing this at XCOR – designing, building and testing real hardware on real spacecraft. There is nothing better! I would encourage every engineer out there, who wants to really build things, to check out our job openings online. The Lynx is a very exciting program to work on, and is only the first step on XCOR’s journey. I look forward to seeing where it leads!
Yesterday we interviewed XCOR Chief Executive Officer Jeff Greason (@JeffGreason on Twitter) about Lynx status, the future of suborbital and orbital space flights, and fielded questions from Facebook and Twitter.
Thanks to all of you who submitted questions–both for your thoughts and your patience. Enjoy!
Bryan Campen: If we were to step into the hangar right now, what would we see?
Then, off behind a black curtain, we are accumulating the composite pieces of the Lynx airframe. We have:
• The fuselage we are going to fly,
• The LOX tank we are going to fly is currently being installed in the fuselage,
• We have the strakes—the thick part at the base of the wings–on both the port and starboard side,
• We have the landing gear,
• And we are eagerly awaiting the cockpit. It’s one of those things that is very close, but hard to tell how long it takes to get all the way to done.
BC: What major milestones are shaping-up this year for XCOR and Lynx?
JG: When we get all the pieces for Lynx, of course that’s gonna be a big day.
There are a few pieces we need to start with the final assembly of the vehicle: the strakes, fuselage and cockpit.
Once we have those we’ll start integrating and doing all of the vehicle structural assembly. After all of that is done it starts to look like a spaceship. Then we start wiring and plumbing it. And there are other pieces that bolt on rather than glue on, like the engine cowling, that will arrive during the Lynx wiring and plumbing process.
When the propulsion system is ready to go, we unbolt it from the test stand and bolt it on to the bird.
And when the bird is ready to go we start flight test activity.
BC: Jos Gal asks: When will be the roll-out of the Lynx and when is the first test-flight?
JG: I believe we will see the flight test program starting this year.
The roll-out will of course be when the vehicle is put together and the first flight test will be when it is ready to fly.
We’re in the phase of the project where we have to knock the remaining issues down one by one. Our engineers are going as fast as they can to get there, so there’s no need to apply pressure with a flight date.
BC: Per Wimmer asks: What are the most important milestones between now and launch of XCOR Lynx Mark I? How is everything progressing?
JG: To go back to the earlier answer—the next major milestone is when we have all of the structural subassemblies to start the vehicle assembly.
And it’s hard to pick out one major milestone after that. It’s the process of getting all the pieces put together.
There will be another, separate path when we are done debugging the propulsion system, at least sufficiently for the Mark I flights to start. But those are not dependent on each other, because we have the testing on the test stand while we have the vehicle integration happening in parallel.
Those are the major milestones between here and flight.
As to how it’s progressing, I am optimistic and feeling good about the process once we have all the pieces in place. It’s a little hard to predict when we will have all the pieces.
BC: Follow-up question from Per Wimmer: How do you see the competitive landscape for private space rocket building and space travel developing at the moment?
JG: Right now, and for the next several years, the suborbital and orbital markets are going to remain fairly distinct from each other. They are not overlapping segments.
In the suborbital arena more than one company is going to enter service, and we’ll be one of them. I’m feeling very comfortable with our ability to compete on price because of our lower capital costs and higher flight rate, with the other entrants that I see coming into the suborbital market.
For the next few years, the orbital market is going to remain dominated by expendable launch vehicles, and I support efforts to reuse. But that will take some time to come online and reuse will likely work very incrementally in the near- to mid-term. I don’t think that there is going to be a day when suddenly it’s all reusable, with very low maintenance labor. I think it’s going to be a long, evolutionary process.
In the orbital world for the next few years, I think the story is going to be SpaceX, ULA and Orbital Sciences competing for market share. And of course ULA is a customer of ours trying to develop cheaper engines to help them compete, and we fully support them!
The generation after Lynx, on the one hand, will be starting immediately after Lynx Mark I; we will start the Lynx Mark II build.
But we also have, as we’ve said many times, a fully reusable orbital system on the drawing board. Just how fast we are going to start on that remains to be seen. But certainly it’s a multi year effort to get that to a point where it’s ready to start flight-testing.
I think eventually at much higher flight rate, reusable orbital systems will come into the market place. And when that happens they will dominate the lower end of the market.
That said, I think that expendable or quasi-reusable launch vehicles are going to remain. Because I think the market will optimize where the bulk of the mass gets lifted in smaller packages on vehicles that fly very frequently, but are small. And at the same time, the few pieces that are inconvenient to break into small payloads will be an oversized payload market, and that will continue to be served by expendables and semi-reusables.
BC: @ssshocker on Twitter asks: What is the timeline for Lynx MKIII? What price point are you aiming for with LEO payloads?
JG: I am not going to speculate on the timeline for Mark III. After the Mark I is flying I’ll put a new number on it.
Right now it’s looking like that will be about $500,000 for a microsatellite launch. The price is dominated by the cost of the expended upper stage for Mark III.
BC: Hernan Estrada asks: How do you expect XCOR technology (and its competitors’) to impact commercial point-to-point flying 10 years from now?
JG: I know there is an enormous level of interest in high speed point-to-point transport. And I believe that the day will come when these kinds of technologies do play in that market.
But I don’t expect it to be a material factor within ten years. The reason for that is that point-to-point transport, unlike suborbital and orbital flight, directly competes with a very mature industry of subsonic aircraft.
For the commodity you are offering—high speed—that’s a small fraction of the market who want that speed so badly that they will get themselves to a space port in a remotely populated area in order to take a high speed flight.
So in order for high speed flight to be practical, you have to be able to do it, and you have to be able to do it at a price point that is reasonably competitive with subsonic aircraft, or at least not a large multiple of it. On top of that, you would need to be able to fly from densely populated areas with all the implications that has for how you integrate with the air traffic control system, how much noise you generate on takeoff, that kind of thing.
It is possible to do. But I think it’s going to take many generations of a reusable rocket vehicle before we’re ready to do them. And that means I think suborbital point-to-point flight over any significant distance, as a major form of transportation, is going to come on only after we have fully reusable orbital flight.
Now people will find certain high value uses where an orbital system can be turned into a point-to-point delivery system for a few very high value payloads, where nobody cares how much it costs if it gets there in time. But I don’t that is going to be a major factor in the point-to-point transportation market over the next ten years.
BC: @silicon_sky on Twitter asks: Is there a plan to try an intercontinental flight with the Lynx?
…and is there a one sentence answer you want to give with that?
JG: I have a more than one sentence answer with that one [laughter]. I get asked this question a lot.
The only way to get long distance out of a rocket is to go very, very fast. And if you want to go a significant fraction of the way around the planet, you have to go a significant fraction of the velocity it takes to go into orbit. Very significant point-to-point distances are just not acceptable to suborbital vehicles of the first generation because while you can go 60 or 70 miles high, you can’t go more than about 200 miles downrange. To extend that you could use subsonic glide, but that’s not any faster than any other airplane.
So it’s only interesting when you’re talking about orbital class systems that go Mach 8, Mach 10 or beyond.
BC: @Goolic on Twitter asks: I’m really curious if you see any significant difference/advantage vs Virgin or simply see the market as big enough?
JG: What’s important right now, and what we focus on, is getting multiple successful entrants operating in the suborbital market so that we can start to compete with each other. Once multiple companies are serving that market, they will all try different things and offer different kinds of services to the customers. And really not until then will we find out what the demands of the market really are.
So I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about what the various competitive situations are going to be, or gaming them out.
What I focus on is “Let’s get out there and start serving the market, and then we’ll find out!” Maybe a market segments, and different companies offer different services that appeal to different people. Maybe the market’s big enough for many entrants. Or maybe there are winners and losers, and in that case we will work very hard to be one of the winners.
But until there are multiple companies in the competitive marketplace it’s too early to worry about.
BC: Question from Julian Powell: Any updates on the development of the upper stage hydrolox engine for ULA?
JG: The program is continuing, the work is ongoing, and when we reach significant milestones we ask permission to say something public about them. And ULA has been great about that.
BC: @ZacTrolley asks: International partners & employees; how difficult is it [with] ITAR and other security measures? How can it be made easier?
JG: With ITAR in place it is essentially not possible for us to have non-US persons as employees. All of our employees are citizens or US permanent residents.
There is ITAR reform underway in the United States, and I think it’s possible in time those restrictions will come down, but they are not down yet and might not be down soon.
BC: @tschwarzzz on Twitter asks: What is your long-term vision for XCOR, as far as space settlement goes? Do you envision a future Lynx that enables it?
JG: So I outlined earlier that there is a plan for a fully reusable orbital system after Lynx. And I also discussed that, in my own view, the orbital transportation system is going to shake down into small, highly reusable vehicles that fly most of the mass, and larger semi-expendable vehicles that fly far less frequently that carry the occasional large payloads.
If you look at what it takes to do cost-effective transportation beyond low earth orbit, of course you need to start reusing what I’ll call the earth departure stages—the rockets that post the payloads to earth escape have to come back. That’s not that technically difficult to do.
They then need to be refueled on orbit, so that they can be re-used. To do that you have to have a propellant storage capability on orbit, and I think one large consumer of launch for a long time to come will be propellant launched from the earth to those orbiting facilities.
I think people are going to be an important part of the traffic model going to orbit. For example I think that Richard Gariott’s time on the space station shows that there is actually a market for on-orbit labor, there are things for people to do on-orbit that pay.
It’s just that right now those things don’t pay as much as it costs to get the people up there.
But with a fully reusable system, you’re talking about a price point where very clearly the opposite is true. Flying people up to orbit becomes like flying people to an offshore oil rig or a research station. People do it because it pays to do it.
The third major segment is going to be that most of the things that we build in space can be effectively built in space out of modest sized pieces, hundreds of kilograms. And a system that can take a couple of people and payloads of that class will be needed and successful.
Launches like those are going to be so much cheaper to fly per kilogram than the large vehicles that fly less frequently. The only things you’ll fly on the large vehicles will be things that you can’t break into smaller pieces. For example the earth departure stages themselves, when they have to be replaced, will probably go up on large vehicles.
Now I hope XCOR is part of that transportation system, and it’s my job to try to get us there.
I have thought about if we get to the point where we are flying fully reusable orbital systems what do we do next. And I have given some thought to whether it would make sense for us to start doing circumlunar transportation.
Obviously there are other companies out there that have vertical landing technology that are better equipped than we are to start doing things like reusable lunar landers.
And as I’ve said publicly that once you start flying to the moon, if you care at all what it costs, you start producing propellant on the moon so you can refuel your ships, rather than carrying all the propellant from the ground and that dramatically reduces that cost.
Also, I’d love to see the beginnings of a Mars transportation infrastructure put together. It’s a technically very interesting problem and very doable, but it does require some R&D to do that cost effectively. And I have tried to do what I can to interest government agencies like NASA in doing that R&D so that cost effective transportation to Mars can be obtained one day.
BC: A couple final questions: How is the Midland migration coming along?
JG: It’s always in a forward direction. We continue to work with Midland on navigating our way through the FAA spaceport licensing process. We are going back and forth with the building contractor on hangar renovations. Certainly taken a little longer than I’d like to get the renovation plan hammered out.
We have some rented office space in Midland right now, about six folks working out there.
And they’ll move over with the rest of us, to the hangar, when we are ready to [establish the Research and Development / Flight Test Center in Midland].
BC: Any more updates on the spaceport licensing process?
It’s hard to say much more about that. What’s going on is that as the FAA continues to ask questions we continue to generate answers. At some point we think they will run out of questions. So far we have not run out of answers.
BC: In the meantime, how is XCOR coping with the existing space in Mojave?
JG: [laughter] We are very, very, very full. It’s a challenge. I eagerly look forward to the larger space.
BC: How would you say XCOR is different from the XCOR of 10 years ago?
JG: Maybe it’s just me but it doesn’t feel all that different. I still get my hands on the hardware, everybody still knows everybody fairly well. We still feel like a small shop, we’re still all in one location—it’s just bigger.
I don’t get as much time with each person as I used to and I can’t spend as much time talking at conferences and things like that, because I have too much to do here.
One other thought: After Lynx is flying, a lot more of our people are going to be by percentage in the non-technical parts of the company—in business development, in support of the wet lease operators, and in sales and marketing because they are going to grow significantly. But even then it is my hope that those essentially become divisions of the company and the engineering R&D shop keeps this tight-knit feel.
Next up: XCOR Chief Operating Officer Andrew Nelson talks business. You can connect with Andrew on Twitter as @XCORAndrew.
XCOR A&P Derek Nye prepares the inside of the Lynx Mk. I fuselage to receive the flight LOX tank.
Over the coming year XCOR is developing its first spacecraft. And as one of our guys just said, this is the year of the Lynx. As discussed back in September we are taking you through that journey, post by post to first flight.
Next, we will kick off weekly coverage of all things XCOR—and Lynx—through a new Q&A with XCOR Chief Executive OfficerJeff Greason, touching on some of the big picture highlights of what to expect in the coming year, and recapping a bit of 2013.
Today XCOR begins a full week at the American Geophysical Union’s 46th annual Fall Meeting in San Francisco. We’re talking with Khaki Rodway, Director of Payload Sales and Operations, about the future of research opportunities onboard Lynx as they relate to AGU participants.
Khaki handles all research and education missions onboard Lynx flights. She is the “Your Mission. Our Ship.” side of the XCOR equation.
The XCOR team, including Khaki, will be at booth 245 from Monday, December 9th through Friday, December 13th. Please drop by and say hello!
Khaki Rodway: XCOR is at AGU to deliver a glimpse of the emerging opportunities onboard Lynx for anyone involved with atmospheric science, planetary observation or space physics (for instance). These opportunities are new and provided through Lynx, our commercial suborbital vehicle.
So what I am doing this week is talking to scientists about the paradigm shift Lynx provides the AGU community.
BC: For the uninitiated, can you elaborate on that shift, and how Lynx connects with AGU participants?
KR: When it comes to space-based research and observation, scientists now have the ability to get into the field as never before, and get to where they want to go with Lynx.
BC: And what are the main advantages of Lynx for atmospheric scientists, planetary scientists and space physicists?
KR: It’s threefold: First it’sthe ability to fly at low cost, which makes high flight rates achievable. Second, the fact that researchers can fly with their experiments will be a game changer. And third, the greatest advantage, the one that makes Lynx so exciting and beneficial to scientists, is that each flight can be entirely dedicated to the scientist’s mission–they don’t have to share their g-profile or pointing profile with other experimenters.
Scientists will be able to gather in-situ measurements at multiple points in the atmosphere or direct a telescope at a specific planetary object, for instance.
BC: Can you give some specific examples of how advances in suborbital space flights will change research and experimentation for the better?
KR: Sure. Take space hardware, where automation is the norm.
Before hardware is ever on orbit you have to know that it’s going to work. Because if it doesn’t work you can’t just go up there and fix it.
But if you can do your calibration tests with a human in the loop and fly frequently at low cost in a relevant environment, you can save yourself time and heartache by knowing that the instrument will work the first time it’s put on a satellite.
If something goes wrong with your hardware, your experiment, you’d like to get your hands on that hardware and fix it… but you can’t. After launch, there is no way to tweak and modify anything. Perhaps months later you’ll retrieve it.
Lynx is designed for low cost, high frequency flights. By comparison–take sounding rockets as an example. Much of the research conducted at this level of the atmosphere currently involves sounding rockets, and those are about ten times the price of a Lynx flight, maybe a few flights per year per experiment.
And this ability for Lynx to fly at such low cost and high frequency makes high flight rates achievable, which is what makes the whole future of suborbital research so attractive. With increased frequency, you have the opportunity to test equipment in-situ and know much more about what to expect well before launch.
With Lynx, we can dial up flights on a couple of hours’ notice, which matters a lot for anyone wanting to perform research at a pace that’s interesting.
BC: OK so that’s low cost and high frequency flights, and in-situ measurements for instrumentation development. How would Lynx be relevant to, for instance, an atmospheric scientist?
KR: Let’s say I’m a researcher who wants to gather data on noctilucent or polar mesospheric clouds. These clouds form spontaneously and hang around for several hours. With Lynx rapid call-up time—Lynx can be ready to fly in 2 hours—it can get me to 80 kilometers before the clouds disappear. That has not been possible until now.If the weather changes and I only have two hours to fly to 80 kilometers, I now know I can do that.
BC: So a researcher can have increased frequency with Lynx, and at a sharp decrease in cost from today’s offerings. What else?
KR: One of the most interesting opportunities on the horizon with Lynx is that Lynx can be used as a dedicated space-based research vehicle that flies a single scientific mission. Much like oceanographers and marine geoscientists have their ocean-going research vessels that go to their areas of investigator interest, Lynx can do the same for space researchers. Space scientists can get into the field, collect samples at a particular altitude in a particular part of the world, or look at specific object in the solar system or area of the Earth when and how they want.
It is my flight, “my” vehicle with a scientific mission.
BC: Last question: What is the “Ignorosphere”.
KR: The Ignorosphere is a phrase scientists use for the Mesosphere/Lower Thermosphere (MLT) region, which is at about 50 to 140 km altitude, and is likely the least sampled and understood region of the Earth’s atmosphere.
It’s the region of the atmosphere where all of this research will happen.
Scientists call it the Ignorosphere because it is above the region accessible for sampling by aircraft and balloons, and below the region of satellite access. Sounding rockets do get into the MLT, but they quickly pass through it.
Lynx is going directly into the MLT, which means scientists can examine up close transition zones such as the mesopause and turbopause, or Earth’s highest clouds known as Polar Mesospheric Clouds (PMC’s), or the regions where solar UV variability has its greatest impact. With Lynx floating in this region for several minutes, scientists now have the ability to do fine scale in-situ sampling of key chemical trace gases, meteoritic dust, isotopes of trace gas elements, water vapor, sulfates, CO2, just as an example. All this can be accomplished frequently, repeatedly, and at an extremely lower cost than existing platforms or capabilities.
Due to the amount of detailed work involved prior to each test day, the test team needs a simple visual method to track every single piece of hardware that has been tended to prior to a test. Here Ray Fitting of Red Team torques a line, painting a bright stripe on each nut and line that has already been checked and adjusted prior to the test. Red Team and the rest of the test team are then able to track what still requires attention, and what is in (or out) of place.
As always, if you have questions or comments, you can ask them right here, or connect with us on Twitter or Facebook.
Bryan Campen: What is Red Team?
Ray Fitting: Red Team is the team that pretty much does all the hands-on work on the test stand. Whenever we are bringing up pressures and going out for a test day, we are the guys actually around the test stand manipulating valves, regulators and doing any in-field repairs or modifications.
BC: When you joined XCOR, where did you start?
RF: Literally I started off as hangar maintenance and shop help, sweeping and cleaning up [the hangar]. Red Team started probably about three months into working for XCOR. XCOR kind of has a policy of having everyone at some point in time being part of Red Team. It helps to gain a better understanding of how the stands work.
BC: Your day starts pretty early on test days…
RF: When working with a test stand, generally [the Red Team crew] are the ones doing maintenance, repairs or upgrades on a stand. We are constantly working on it, so on a test day we’re some of the first into the hangar.
BC: And at the top of the day you’re there with Checklist and Control? What are you doing?
RF: Yes it’s usually Red Team, Checklist and Control. First part of the day is spent cleaning and prepping the stand to be filled with fuel or liquid oxygen or both.
Then we’re loading the trailers and getting ready to roll out.
BC: How do you integrate with Checklist and Control?
RF: Generally I communicate the most with Checklist, because [Brandon] is doing the challenge and response system. With that, there is a certain lingo and flow and it’s kind of hard to explain. Basically we have worked so long together that when we’re talking we can communicate more with less words. Everyone who is actively involved with a test stand is kind of on the same wavelength and shares this [ability]. And because there are usually not a lot of distractions at the bunker, it is easier to communicate problems and potential fixes.
BC: So you fuel-up and caravan to the bunker. When you arrive, what part of the job requires the greatest focus?
RF: When we bring pressures up and we are getting closer to run, that requires the most focus. We’re listening, going through actuation tests on valves, checking all of the systems, and always listening to and looking at everything to make sure it’s behaving and working the way it’s supposed to. During the final parts of the setup before we arm it and go back into the bunker to press the “Go” button, that’s the most mentally demanding moment for everyone.
Ray opens-up helium bottles and brings-up pressure on the test stand during a test day.
BC: How long did it take until you felt settled-into the role?
RF: It’s one of those things where you never finish learning. There is always something new going on and I am always learning. There are always new tests, new valves, new apparatus. So you eventually get to a point where you have enough knowledge of safety and how things work that you kind of get comfortable— but it’s still a constant learning process.
However, once you get to a place where the hardware is neutral, that’s a little simpler to learn and understand. But it takes a bit of hands-on to get a feel for which system is which plumbing-wise. Then you’re able to take it apart and understand it in your head.
BC: What’s the most interesting part of the experience?
RF: Watching fire come out of the engine. That means all the work the crew has done has come together, and it did what it was supposed to do.
Today we conclude an interview with XCOR’s Mike Massee, the guy behind the videos captured at every hot fire.
If you have questions or comments, you can ask them right here, or connect with us on Twitter or Facebook.
Bryan Campen: Jeff [Greason] often talks about being able to read shock diamonds with the naked eye – the brain is faster than any computer in being able to read a rocket engine during a hot fire – so being in a bunker, it’s very important to have video. What set of selections do you have in terms of equipment or set-up to make it better, to make it an even faster read?
Mike Massee: Early on when we started, when I started in 2001 the entire world of broadcast video was still in standard definition. And my big goal was to move into high definition as soon as it became affordable at a reasonable rate to do so, because there’s so much more situational awareness with that clarity. So the first chance I had, I started switching out things with HD.
That made a huge difference, having big monitors with lots of pixels. Instead of a little fuzzy dot that was a valve, you could see the valve, you could see which way it was actuated, and resolution is, probably the most important thing is having more resolution. As the world starts to get into 4K, which is quad HD basically, almost four thousand pixels across on a video screen, that will bring an even more window-like clarity to the world. I like to call the video wall we have in the bunker the world’s most expensive window. We are looking right through the wall at what’s on the other side of it – except that you can zoom and look into different spots.
I’m reminded of the video screen in Back To The Future II that they have in their future home. They have this screen that they pull down in front of the window that gives them a view of whatever they want to look at. That’s how I’ve always kind of seen it, it is just a big window.
BC: Have you ever destroyed any equipment? Be honest.
MM: I’ve put a lot of equipment in the line of fire. Certainly very, very close to operating rocket engines. But since there has never been a hard start in the history of the company, I have not lost any cameras. The worst camera that got damaged – and it still worked after that – was in a really hellacious sand storm. So the worst damage came from Mojave weather and not from the rocket engines or the propulsion systems, interestingly enough. So that’s–I’ve really been very fortunate that I’ve put some very expensive equipment on the line and we’ve not had to replace any of it. Our engines, since they’re safer and reliable, I feel comfortable putting equipment out there, and I haven’t really had any problems with that. The main thing is they have to, if they’re close to the engine, they have to survive a very harsh vibratory environment because there’s a lot of vibration radiation that comes off of them. So there are some special considerations there. But, other than that, I’ve had very good luck here. That’s just a testament to the company’s propulsion technology as a whole.